Hi all, some new questions on mod and improvement

[MRO]

Hi all.
I'm Mauro from Italy.
I worked for two simulation programs in past and would like to try with KRP.
To do so I need a couple of info which I couldn't understand by myself and didn't find online.
(if instead of putting your time to reply you can give me some ref. or links where to study it's good enough, tks.).
Some points:
- I can use 3dsMax 5.1 or 8: at the moment I see that plugins don't work in 5.1, and probably they're for 8 or later:
        which plugins and which 3dsM
- I can't find some textures packages, such as tyres (where are the materials for "Riboso" meshes, where the chassis,
        and so on: I see that you use to make (e.g. helmet) visor# and #2, chassis, hubs files, but all such files I
        can't find in original program structure
        so there is something I'm missing: I thought for example to search in extension "*.TYRES" trying to rename as
        a compressor or a graphic type.. but at today plenty of dark
- I see that you mix-up helmet, visors, driver suit, kart body in same *.pnt file, while in main structure they'd be
        in several and different paths
        also you name main folder "karts" and sub-folder "paints" (where textures in "karts" where in previous KRP
        release and now it's different dir structure, and many parts should be in "bodyworks"
        is it all workable? does the exe search everywhere and not only in specific paths?
        this makes me little bit confused and to understand above starting points could take long time of tests:
        nonsense if you can light my way with simple 3 or 4 replies (or links where to improve)
thanks a lot
Mauro (Italy)
PS:
for the moment I'm not interested in new tracks but to understand firstly program scheme and working methods
(wish to try first with some modifications of details, karts (I see that all is basically made on two models only,
and that might be all chassis have same performance today, changing only engine)
wish to learn, then might be I can make something useful for community in future

[EVO]

Hello MRO welcome to the KRP forum and to the addon section.
The meshes and texture from in game are property of PiBoSo.
You should be able to generate your own models pretty easily.

Chekc out mydownload page in my signiture for some reference files.
Also use the search field in the top right of the forum
the offial gmae templates are found here http://www.kartracing-pro.com/?page=downloads
a program called paintEd is used to pack them and save them in .pnt format to be read by the KRP

You can extract the .pkz files in the KRP directory and take a look at the file structure

I think right now KRP could use new helemts, engines, and bodyworks, most everything else has been explored.

[MRO]

 
Hi EVO, firstly thanks a lot for your kind and prompt reply.. this I really appreciate.

Reply step by step:
what you're suggesting I already checked indeed before boring with my questions.
Unluckily (might be also due to my strict free time) I didn't find helpful replies to needed info after a first look and that's the reason for which I wrote.
So:
- of course I know that meshes, textures and materials are proprietorship of RiBoSo, infact I shouldn't ask to "copy" them but just (as consider obvious) to "understand program structure" (so e.g. where some files are located and how, paths, links, etc..) which is the first step (I mean to understand the scheme) for anyone to give a contribute
- indeed I read your great support, and actually you've really the right to be named "Hero Member": I stored, studied and put in order a folder with 85% of downloads concerning your work already
- tested PaintED and other tools and understood quite well how they work

the questions remain unchanged:
most probably it's because I started with short tests on KRP at its beginning (early '11, just few days: my program license code is old dated) and then I had to abandon for too long time: say that downloaded Beta_7 just ten dd ago, jumping straightly from Beta_3 :-(.. probably I've lost its history and step by step increase.

As told, I worked officially for different sim (such as RBR, which was and remains the best sim engine, RFactor, Pterodon and ..) either in deep textures, 3d modeling, scripts, ini_improvements and other matters:
we all well know that start-up is always the hardest phase, if you seriosuly wish to cooperate, because needs to know all particular characters of a program.. (started from zero in RBR and after some years wrote full chapters of tutorials and movies).

But I need a small help to enter quickly in this matter, not only because of my short free time, but also because here there are some points which are different from previous sim's:
frankly speaking I don't see an improved support in "first steps tutorials", nor a deep improvement of plugins to work on modeling (or probably I miss, and there are somewhere?).

What I mean, for example:
I downloaded some EdfExp dll's which I suppose the must go in 3dsMax Plugins folder, but can't find the shaders scripts, what to put in PluConfig folder, how to structure Maxscripts and paths, UI..
simply I can suppose that such dll plugins are to export, but what to import *.edf?
And which 3ds Max version are for? I told you: I work in 5.1 (because some simulators are not working with later versions) and with 8: which is the correct Max version to use? what are using you?

same as above:
what you already understood is in this moment unclear for me: if you have done the dashes pacvk, it means that you know where is the origin on dash textures: if I open the dash or intakes pkz (or many others) I find only 3d and configuration files, not textures: where are the textures?
or simply you tested and saw that making and naming some graphic files they work? did you all do this without knowing why and which is the original engine that calls them? I don't think so

so ask you some patience and few minutes help to accompaign myself to the first steps of the route.. then I'm able to walk very well don't worry :-) they're over 20 years that I walk in simulators sotware.. (and I'm 54 guy).

I don't promise, but if can understand some starting points might be useful to work on setup system too, basing on previous experience, and improving kart frame behaviour, not only engine response (you well know as me, I have three karts at home, my son, and personally do car races, that performance is based on engine at 50% only)..
there are many things I wish to do if can help: either because promised to my son (kart racing pilot) and because I like all new challenges.

count on your help?
need just three questions and some refresh exchange

bye
Mauro

[MRO]

or simply clarify if the two plugin examples Input and Output texts
are for 3d purpose or what RiBoSo aims:
I quickly studied them and they may seem (also might be C++ for certain parts)
but it's bizarre to upload two scripting text without any comment or explanation or purpose..
right?
so quick impression could be to have the two plug scripts (which extension) for plugcfg
and the real plugins for plugin 3ds folder
is it?

[EVO]

Expect reply in six hours

[MRO]

wow, great!

[EVO]

The plugins found in the latest track tools are the correct ones.  Make sure you have the most updat.  I have made this mistake many times. 
http://www.kartracing-pro.com/?page=downloads
Most of us here use use 3dsMax 2012 64 bit to model and 2010 32bit to export. the 2012 edf exporter has some bugs and the 2010 is ideal for converting rfactor tracks because all the rfactor scripts
KRP is super simple to mod with a little modeling and code skill  and judging from what I have read about your experience you are pro. 
So here is a collection of zip files that should help you with modding KRP

Shaders and 3d grass are applied using a txt file with .txt extension renames  (.SHD  .GRS)
they are very simple just generate the shader using shader map pro or something then make this file with the following code from the creation rules page (http://tools.piboso.com/index.php/Track_Creation_Rules)
Everything should be saved in your working directory where you have all your .tga textures

Try not to ask PiBoSo too many questions he is very busy, I'm sure i could answer quite a few.  Also I am sure i have forgotten a lot of details in this post but feel free to ask more
At the moment there is no bodywork or engine templates.  If you choose to try it will take alot of testing and tuning as i am very used to doing.

Here are some example files with some instructions

Airbox with shaders
https://app.box.com/s/oxih8oc0sww8hwmcsqw7fhkvcwj65gzo

Dash UVW unwrap technique
https://app.box.com/s/ndt5jhf5nmi72ahmgjfbxymmf6yttr6r

Track with shader (specular only) using shader map pro to create
https://app.box.com/s/sj3q79hfbke7bqu2zjsec7fgxzv2sret

3D grass that i use
https://app.box.com/s/sj3q79hfbke7bqu2zjsec7fgxzv2sret

[MRO]

Tks so much EVO, sure it'll be helpful
study, improve, learn and revert back soonest.
Ciao.
:-)

[MRO]

Thanks EVO,
I improved and studied on your info basis: they were quite helpful (some parts already had).

I put a couple of straight questions, let's see if we can proceed (actually I didn't have time to test with 3dsM 10, and can confirm that previous versions don't work: so at the moment not opened 3d yet: might be that once opened suche replies come without asking):

1) plugins: I put the Input.C and Output.C (in "plugins example, download section of riBoSo) in "plugin script" folder of 3dsM, and the EdfExp..dle (I choose only the one that fits to my 3dsM version) in "plugin" folder: is it?
- and which plugin shall we use to import Edf? it seems we only have Exp one.

2) where are the textures of: tyres, radiator, engine, seat, chain box, and dashes?
I know they're property of RiBoSo, and I'm not interested to copy them: just need to understand: they must be somewhere, in some format:
e.g. tyres have a colour texture, a RiBoSo label: where tehy're hidden?
same for dashes:
I ask you because you made new dashes, as Alfano, but also modified MyChron: so you already found something (or RiBoSo told in forum), right?
I'm interested also to change some details, like seat, chain box, tyres type (Vega, LeCont, etc..) as to make new engine and its new performance..
(I see that at the moment there is only one model of frame, all with front brakes, all with gear / also in KF.. wish to start from that area)

3) how to re-pack in *.kpz: in 2011 I've done but now I don't remember how I did: with normal rar, zip, 7-z doesn't work: I will try with "Total Commander"

[LauZzZn]

first of all, his name i Piboso ^^
2) ok now to the 3ds max things.
there is no possibility to import trp,edf oder map files.
you need the trp export that krp know what is where on your track and the map file for your textures so its completely different from rfactor
you use the edf file type for airbox helmets and all the other things that are or will be possible.
evo hasnt modified the dashes he made them himself as i know.
we havent figured out or piboso hasnt told us how to make tires,engines or bodyworks yet.

3) you make a .zip and just change the ending by renaming from .zip to .pkz



i hope that helped you u can also pm me if you have questions

[EVO]

Good answers Laurents.

yes i have made everything from scratch.  I made my version of the MyChron with more precise detail.  I used the one i owned and measurued it and what not.

Back in Beta 2 i believe a Schwoni (fastest driver in KRP history and awesome modder)  discovered you some hidden textures names.  he was able to apply a texture to the seat and airbox, since then the names have been changed so we cant paint them.  I think they were actually embeded in the kart model so it make actaully impossible.   

Modding in KRP is simple, if you have the time to test, Their is alot of content yet to be explored becaseu no one has done the testing, becuase without the resources from PiBoSo it is quite time consuming, though overal simple

[EVO]

When i first started modding PiBoSo was very nice and provided answer to many questions.  If you choose to do new content im sure he will answer questions no one else can.  Something like a aircooled rotary valve engine would be a great addition to PiBoSo's KRP

[LauZzZn]

yeah the same with the tires i already thought about making tires like dunlop but had not time to make it.. or find out how to..

[MRO]

Thanks both EVO and LauZzZn:
your replies confirm what I already guessed, and in this situ I don't see great space for improvement, apart some areas, few models and textures.
Or I try to keep in touch with PiBoSo to seek if they're happy / unhappy to disclose some areas in change of improving help.
(sorry for the wrong name :-): I'm only interested in programs improve, not enetring the sim, as I never went over the kart viewer or setup page because now my interest is structure and not playing.. later I will also play it).
As told I worked many years on sim, the sim where absolutely much (much) more complex, but in all cases with plenty scripting, open exe and full structure in hand (included source codes): also fighted hard because scripting comments where in Chzec and Russian (I know only English and Italian) and worked with dictionary in hand per any sentence, script piece comment..

What I see here is basically the missing of Import plugin, which shows the intention of Author to keep closed KRP: frankly my opinion is that an Author makes something great, but the modern system is to leave others to improve it:
now you have a pretty kart sim where you drive KF with a KZ shift in hand because models are missing
and probably with similar (or identical) performance karts
WHY NOT IMPROVING ALL?
STARTING POINT IS:
KARTING IS A GREAT IDEA FOR SIMULATORS
and if it is seriously improved can have a good fortune: many people follow karting all over the World.

But (questions):
chassis / frame setup is basic or different per each model?
are there different engines with different response to ground? obvious that a Rotax Max doesn't run like KF2, and that only between CRG frames their tech spec are all different one each other.

Shall we try to improve?
Thanks
Mauro :-)

[LauZzZn]

yeah the chassis are different and.. you missunderstood st here. we have a kz engine and kz chassis etc kf engine kf chassis... everything in the engines thing is alright. we could add engines that would be really cool but we don't know how to and i personally have no time to test how it works.