Lets post our tips about the setups.
I will try to explain with my poor english what I know of the real karts first (not so much!!)
Caster: The more caster you have, the more radical is the turning. Low values makes the kart easy to drive but you can feel understeer. High values makes the kart fast to turn but hard to mantain the racing line and hard to control the oversteer. I feel the changes a little exagerated in KRP comparing with my real experience.
Camber: High values help the low speed turns, when the front wheel blends because of the lateral forces and when you have the steering wheel straight, the less front wheel contact helps with the usual oversteer of the exit on the turns. High vales do the kart faster on the straights because of the low friction (less contact with the tarmac) I don't really know what's the point of the positive or low values. Here I am quite lost. In real world, I always use high values.
Pressure: High values will warm the tyre fast but soon they will warm too much after a few laps! In my real experience, more pressure=more grip (if the tyre temp is inside the working values!), just the opposite of the big cars. The pressure is, by far, the most important setting on a kart. If you put 200 or 250 gr less air than the best value, you will loose 0,3 - 0,6 sec for lap. If you put more than the best value, you will do the best lap soon but after that, you will loose more and more lap after lap. Track temp is critical of course, but you can run fast even with low temp with high values of pressure. I don't see this kind of differences in KRP, but maybe I need more testing :)
Track width REAR: The width of the kart is very important! You have to think how the kart works: we dont have differential, so the only way to turn is to have one wheel on the air! Think about it; rear blocked axle will not let you to turn, it doesn't want to! If you have a rear long axle, high value on the rear width, you barely will put the kart "on three wheels" if the grip is low... But if your axle is short, is easier to lift off the inside rear wheel. So the best value is as long as the track grip lets you (more width makes the kart more stable obviously)
Track width FRONT: More width helps on the slow turns, but you can't put high values because of the rear width setup. In wet there is no option... you have to put high values or you will not be able to turn in the first place, once the kart is turning, the best control way is the gas :)
Height: This setting is easy; more heigth = more grip. You can change the values looking for the stability of the kart. If you have oversteering, you can lower the front and rise the rear and viceversa.
Seat: Higher seat will give you more rear grip but maybe you will have problems on slow turns, it wil be harder to lift off the rear inside wheel (remember the "differential effect" ;) )
Toe IN: The front wheels are not parallel. You can put them convergent or divergent (or parallel) but the only way to have a racing kart is to put them divergent. The more divergency, the faster will be the steering wheel but the less stability aswell. You can have a very quick kart but you will do turns on straights too :D
Ackerman: This is a strange stuff for begginers and hard for me to explain...maybe I am wrong too!! The ackerman is the wheel turn ratio adjustment. Here my english will be not able to explain it correctly, sorry. If you have less ackerman, your wheels will turn almost the same depending if they are inside or outside wheel, so in slow turns the inside wheel will not turn enough and you will feel understeering. If you have high value, you will have a better slow turn control but worse in fast one. Please, maybe I am wrong here!
Rear Axle: Very difficult to explain... No one have the last word, the best is to test. My experience is that hard axles are for high grip and soft for the opposite, but you will hear all versions...
Bars: The bars will become the kart harder. Those bars are extremly hard to explain, you have to test them. Usually kart hardness will do the kart less grippy but is not as easy ;)
Please, I am not an expert at all!! I can be completely wrong about everything, feel free to fix my mistakes ;)
In some karting manual I've read that it is best to have as narrow front track as possible. Can somebody explain why is that?
Quote from: Aritz on May 08, 2011, 08:04:07 PM
I don't see this kind of differences in KRP, but maybe I need more testing :)
Please post about your findings after testing more with the tyres :)
Quote from: Aritz on May 08, 2011, 08:04:07 PM
Camber: High values help the low speed turns, when the front wheel blends because of the lateral forces and when you have the steering wheel straight, the less front wheel contact helps with the usual oversteer of the exit on the turns. High vales do the kart faster on the straights because of the low friction (less contact with the tarmac ) I don't really know what's the point of the negative or low values. Here I am quite lost. In real world, I always use high values.
i think you mean "positive"
here there is written positive camber is used in very wet condition
http://www.dannypoggi.it/pagine/Assetto/assetto_kart.asp
Su circuiti a bassa aderenza e sul bagnato si utilizza un camber neutro o addirittura positivo sul bagnato eccessivo.
Fixed, thx ;)
Quote from: aireisor on May 08, 2011, 08:37:33 PM
In some karting manual I've read that it is best to have as narrow front track as possible. Can somebody explain why is that?
A wide front track gives great turn in handling. Like the KTM XBOW (wider in front than rear)
This is from the CRG manual
"Widening the front track will create more of a jacking effect when the wheels are
turned. This will result in more front end grip and quicker turn in. Narrowing the front track will have the
opposite effect. This will result in slower turn in and less front end bite."
However when their is more grip available you may want to narrow the front track because excess grip will slow you down (bind the kart)
And?
Which are your feelings? How do you setup the kart?
I tried widenning the tracks (both) and the kart is a lot easier to drive (maybe I had a good day lol) That way I was able to try more caster too, the kart was quite fast (high caster) and quite controllable (high wideness)
Now my quest is to have more grip in both axis and to learn more about tyre pressures, any advice? I can't feel big differences between low and high pressures, do you?
Please, don't keep secrets so soon, we are friends yet :D
Quote from: Aritz on May 26, 2011, 07:58:45 PM
And?
Which are your feelings? How do you setup the kart?
I tried widenning the tracks (both) and the kart is a lot easier to drive (maybe I had a good day lol) That way I was able to try more caster too, the kart was quite fast (high caster) and quite controllable (high wideness)
Now my quest is to have more grip in both axis and to learn more about tyre pressures, any advice? I can't feel big differences between low and high pressures, do you?
Please, don't keep secrets so soon, we are friends yet :D
generally i use rear axe 50 medium, rear width +1, seat -1, but in other tracks i have different values and i'm working on it all the time, in essay it was good for the last fast corner put the mid bar from loose to flat but this not helped in the fast corner after start in lonato and i have still problems, for tyres pressure i am like you confused and i need more tests
Quote from: Aritz on May 26, 2011, 07:58:45 PM
And?
Which are your feelings? How do you setup the kart?
I tried widenning the tracks (both) and the kart is a lot easier to drive (maybe I had a good day lol) That way I was able to try more caster too, the kart was quite fast (high caster) and quite controllable (high wideness)
Now my quest is to have more grip in both axis and to learn more about tyre pressures, any advice? I can't feel big differences between low and high pressures, do you?
Please, don't keep secrets so soon, we are friends yet :D
You are right and with tyres i don`t have noticed any changings on the track no grip differnce and also not really temp. diferrences.
one of the importest thing is the seat position my opinion. try a lil bit i think this changes the most for more grip.
Quote from: oppolo on May 26, 2011, 09:31:37 PM
but this not helped in the fast corner after start in lonato and i have still problems
i found i can this turn better with ackerman min
Most all of what you posted seems pretty accurate to real-world Aritz! And it seems to apply mostly true to the game as well which is great :)
I agree with Schwoni that seat position is really important. I like to move mine back one or two clicks to get more rear grip.
For tyre pressure, I've noticed that the lower pressure makes the kart take a while to get up to normal grip levels, as you'd expect. I've been running 9.4 psi lately, which is comparable to the tyres I use in real-life.
aireisor,
A narrow front track will let the kart roll more freely off the corner and scrub less speed off. As with any adjustment in karting, it is a trade-off to find the right balance between your turn-in grip and your speed off the corner. The wider front will help on turn-in, but it also tends to set the inside rear wheel down quicker too, binding the kart on exit more. If you can run a narrow front track without giving up turn-in grip, you can get off the corner better and down the straight faster.
On axles, I haven't really felt much difference in KRP between them. Typically I run medium to hard in real-life, because they allow the rear to pick up quicker (more direct transfer of weight) and give the rear more stability. Axle tuning is really a fine art though as you said Aritz. Axles will do different things under different track conditions. A stiff axle may work well on a cold day since you're digging the outside tire into the track harder and you're getting more traction. A stiff axle may also work on a warm day with lots of grip as you are able to get a better transfer of weight and quicker lift. I always start at medium and then adjust according to the track conditions.
I wrote a setup guide for the Merlin kart, maybe I'll post it if you guys are interested in seeing it?
Of course!
thank you T.J. :)
Here it is. Hopefully it applies to KRP as well as it has so far in real-life!
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=09DHA2NL
Quote from: T.J. Koyen on May 27, 2011, 04:21:50 PM
Here it is. Hopefully it applies to KRP as well as it has so far in real-life!
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=09DHA2NL
The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=K8VJ6A9H
Sorry, try that.
whoa the fubar girl is hot(megaupload).. thanky you T.J. that all makes so much sense.i have run a soft axel in low grip conditions becuase i didnt have a harder one and notice this. I finally puchased a harder axle. I cant wait to try it. Those soft ones are like spaghetti in green conditions. It is great that the game is becoming more accurate
Haha I was like, "fuber girl...?" but then I clicked on the link and saw her. And yeah, she's hot. hahaha
i don`t see her :(
but now an important question:
in chassis i use front: vertical and loose
middle: flat and loose
rear: out and loose
i tried one time on back vertical and loose too after this change the kart have had so much grip on front
steer a lil bit and it started to drift
maybe too much drifting so not good but feels like good grip on front.
But i don`t understand this values! what are the crashbars? for me this are the plastics xD
so there are the crashbars for front middle and rear wich i don`t understand and the other thing where we can change to flat and vertical is a bit understood^^ this are the stabilizer for front middle and rear? please explain me too this flat and vertical. than i can be sure if i understand it right.
Thanks
Schwoni,
Here is a photo of the Tony Kart front torsion bar:
(http://nextkarting.co.uk/images/fronttorsionbar.jpg)
You can see that it isn't round, so you can twist it in the chassis to be either vertical or flat. A flat front bar isn't as stiff as a vertical front bar. So vertical front bar gives you more front grip and flat front bar gives you less front grip.
I'm a little confused on the crashbars as well. I think it refers to these:
(http://www.cometkartsales.com/store/chassis/otk/otkimages/otk-nerfs.jpg)
Side nerf bars
(http://tonykarttexas.com/parts/bumper/M3%20-%20M4%20upper%20front%20bumper1.jpg)
Front metal bumper loop
(http://www.mcssl.com/TinyMCE/thumbnail.ashx?src=%2Fcontent%2F174731%2FNew_Items%2FCRG_Crash_Bar.JPG&size=100)
Rear bumper cross (sorry for small image)
Except that we don't have rear bumper crosses like that anymore so that's why I was confused.
Hope that helps.
ok i think it helped but with the crash bars i still don`t understand ^^ when they are loose they fly away xD or start jumping a lot i think this piboso have to explain us.
Well if the crashbars are as I've shown above, then you can run with them loosened or tight depending on how much you tight the nuts and bolts. You can loosen the nuts a bit on the side crashbars and they'll wobble more, giving the chassis more flex.
My Friend has the CRG with 32mm tubing and 50mm axle, he says its really stiff so he runs with all torsion bars out and crashbars tight. This gives the chassis flexibility. he also takes a coulple of the floor pan nuts and bolts out. not sure if that legal but he says it helps.
In real life on cold days or low grip tracks you want to run stiff and on hot days or high grip tracks you want to run the very soft. Too much grip on a hot day will bind the chassis slowing you down.
from CRG guide
(http://i53.tinypic.com/qsny1w.jpg)
Thanks to all for the good information. This will help me better understand how to start tweaking from the defaults. Good job!
Here is something I also go by. I dont not know if it helps for KRP though it should
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2wmp65i.jpg)
Nice job Evo, thanks for these tables!
I'm not sure what is meant by the column "Push/Kick", can you explain?
push kick = understeer then sudden oversteer
good to hear from you alphafloor
Guys let me know if this makes you faster in game. It works great for R.L.
what it "neutral setting" for caster and camber?
i read tony kart frame has caster 18 by default and i start my setup from this value.
then i set the camber reading the wear of tires, it seems strange that in slippery condition i have to set it at maximum, because the tire will touch the ground only with the edge in my opinion.
i believe nuetral is the factory or medium setting. not high or low.
Artiz explains CAMBER and CASTER best on the first page
How it works is
more camber the kart will have less contact patch going straight, better for accerlation and top speed (less resistance). In corners the cornering forces will casue chassis to flex then making use of more contact patch. Similar to suspension travel and roll in a car. having too much camber and you are no longer using all the contact patch thus unbalancing the kart.
Caster makes steering harder becuase your are pushing the inside tire into the track to force the inside rear to lift. Setting up based on avaliable grip is best, then dialing out the issues that arise from increased track grip, track temperture, etc.
For the KRP i would suggust the maximum grip setup at all times Labled as slippery condtions in my chart. If you feel the kart is slow even though it is handleing nuetral (no understeer or oversteer) you should dial some of the grip out and maybe use normal conditions set up
You should always aim for a nuetral handeling setup though so depending on grip levels setup the kart to handle nuetral
If the kart does not behave nuetral with the above chart use the one above that to dial out the understeer or oversteer or binding issues (to much grip)
Use the charts on the right in the garage after each outing in practice to see your tire wear. If your front end is setup proplerly for the available grip you should have almost equal wear across all tires. This does not mean that all tires have the same wear but that each wore out evenly.
Becuase of the inside rear wheel lifting in corners and camber on the front tires. Tire wear will never be equal. Near to equal is best that way use on the available grip. If you have to mcuh grip however you can easily remove some. I think for most people finding the grip is the hard part
Same goes for the rear if the axle, ride height, track width, and chassis flexiblity are right for the availaible grip you should have near equal wear across each tire.
Has anyone had success with these tables in game and TJ's awesome detailed setup guide? they work for me.
Seat position makes the biggest difference. At bueren I move the seat forward and up to get more rotation in the slow turns. if its too much i move it backwards. On fast tracks I have the seat low and back
I attached some setups for high grip DRY and Wet. They go in my documents > piboso > kart racing pro > profiles > (ur profile) > setups > track > (t-kc3,t-kc1,c-kc3.......etc)
I noticed alot of people are faster then me coming out of corners not because of gearing but becuase of chassis stiffness. Binding.
quote from fastest guy in KRP about seat position
Quote from: Schwoni on November 02, 2011, 03:28:51 PM
i use h = 4, V = -2 and some chassis changes and it don`t understeer it more oversteer first right while pushing full throttle and go through curve. you have to do it carefull because if not u spin ;) if u want i can send u this setup and u can try because chassis causes very much too for that.
Anyone having trouble understanding kart setup should look at K-Racer. It is all about real life setup but it should mostly apply to KRP.
Firstly I think you should watch some of his videos to help get an understanding of the big picture. Actually I think all his videos should be watched, but most important watch all of the videos in Steering, Roll Stiffness in Chassis & Bars, and the two Rear Track videos in Axle & Hubs.
I also recommend reading some of his blogs:
http://kracer.com.au/blog/setup-nitty-gritty/seats-more-than-just-a-chair-part-three
http://kracer.com.au/blog/setup-nitty-gritty/seats-more-than-just-a-chair-part-four
http://kracer.com.au/blog/setup-nitty-gritty/effects-of-camber
http://kracer.com.au/blog/setup-nitty-gritty/effects-of-camber-a-final-thought
http://kracer.com.au/blog/setup-nitty-gritty/rear-track-width
http://kracer.com.au/blog/setup-big-picture/when-something-good-is-bad
http://kracer.com.au/blog/setup-big-picture/slip-angle-or-what-your-tyres-are-really-doing
http://kracer.com.au/blog/setup-big-picture/slip-angle-in-karts-part-tw
http://kracer.com.au/blog/setup-big-picture/whats-going-on-my-karts-coming-off
If anyone has any questions understanding anything he is trying to explain, or any of the settings on KRP just ask, I like to think I have a good understanding haha.
Great blog!!