Kart Racing Pro Official Forum

Mods => Track Editing => Topic started by: Ozzy_UK on July 09, 2014, 04:08:35 PM

Title: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 09, 2014, 04:08:35 PM
Just started working on it, my first go at a track...
not done any dev work for a few years...

any advice? all help appreciated!

Oz.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 09, 2014, 04:15:39 PM
Here is a shot of the work in progress from today's work in my lunch break...
Oz
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 15, 2014, 01:22:47 PM
bit more done today... we have tyre barriers too...

Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: arm2010 on July 15, 2014, 04:29:33 PM
Looking good , Can't wait for the finished track. :)
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Max Tadd on July 16, 2014, 08:16:22 AM
+1 looks nice. good to see some less mainstream uk tracks
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 24, 2014, 02:45:06 PM
few more pics, got the heights sorted out now, starting to texture the track, and then will start the world, and curbs...
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Cory_Hayes on July 24, 2014, 02:53:21 PM
This looks like it will end up being the best looking track on KRP! Way better than some of the "pro" modders work in the community! GOOD JOB SO FAR!
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 24, 2014, 03:30:10 PM
i do have the help of some "pros"

i just work in IT (desktop 2nd line support) but have worked in the games industry since i was 14, including lionhead, bullfrog, black cactus, eidos, and electroinc arts (current)...

also those screenshots are just 3DS max 2015 renders, not sure how the game will render it, but will do my best to make sure its as good looking as possible! :) sorry its taking so long, i only really have about 1hr per day to work on it over my lunch breaks!

heres some more dev shots to give an idea of the changes in height at this track...
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 24, 2014, 05:01:35 PM
and the final one from this evening before i head home :)

Oz.

Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Max Tadd on July 24, 2014, 05:05:55 PM
nice work!! got any future plans to make any more uk/welsh tracks such as clay, gyg and llandow ?
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 24, 2014, 06:24:36 PM
Not yet... Going to see how this one goes, then may take another uk request or 2 depending on how much time I have!!
Tempted to do an indoor one to see if that's possible too...
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Max Tadd on July 24, 2014, 08:01:20 PM
ok sounds good and yes there has been a uk indoor track!! edmonton london :D
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 24, 2014, 10:28:09 PM
Cool :) let's get this one finished first!
Still a long way to go!
Any advice from anyone on how best to approach this is still appreciated!!!
Never done a track/level before... Only stand alone models and characters and items in games, so this is a new set of challenges!
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 25, 2014, 01:51:00 PM
and another one from today...

with real comparison...
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Max Tadd on July 25, 2014, 01:52:43 PM
looks great so far!! when its all done it will be just epic  ;D ;D ;D 8)
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 29, 2014, 05:50:58 PM
here is another few shots of the work in progress....

Oz.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on July 29, 2014, 05:51:26 PM
another...
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on September 02, 2014, 11:29:11 AM
sorry for the lack of updates, had some family problems that have taken my time away from this little project...

here is some updates...
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on September 02, 2014, 11:30:09 AM
and another
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: LauZzZn on September 02, 2014, 01:18:34 PM
sorry for the lack of updates, had some family problems that have taken my time away from this little project...

here is some updates...

No Need for Grid positions, they will ne Generated in tracked later
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on September 03, 2014, 09:20:24 AM
sorry for the lack of updates, had some family problems that have taken my time away from this little project...

here is some updates...

No Need for Grid positions, they will ne Generated in tracked later

OK, cool, can you define the length/how many are generated?
also is there a polygon limit on tracks/scenes?
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: LauZzZn on September 03, 2014, 09:41:34 AM
sorry for the lack of updates, had some family problems that have taken my time away from this little project...

here is some updates...

No Need for Grid positions, they will ne Generated in tracked later

OK, cool, can you define the length/how many are generated?
also is there a polygon limit on tracks/scenes?

No, no polygon limit.

You can manually generate them.. From 0 to 999.. Its easy, nothing to think about now!
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: Ozzy_UK on September 09, 2014, 01:32:59 PM
realistically what can the engine handle poly count wise?

what are the max texture sizes (would like to use some 8192 square textures if i can...)

thanks
Oz.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track
Post by: LauZzZn on September 09, 2014, 01:46:50 PM
realistically what can the engine handle poly count wise?

what are the max texture sizes (would like to use some 8192 square textures if i can...)

thanks
Oz.

Max texture size is 4096, there isnt really a poly limit. The highest poly count I had yet was 350k I think.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on December 29, 2014, 06:04:44 PM
Hi all
Quick apology for all of you following this...
Birth of child number 3 somewhat killed any free time, along with work going mentally busy (most of my work on this was in my lunch breaks which are now non-existent).

I hope to get back on this in the new year! Until then, I plan to go drive the circuit for some up to date data!

Happy Christmas and new year all!

Ozzy.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Max Tadd on December 29, 2014, 06:08:51 PM
:) congrats on the child and cant wait to see this project continued some time in the new year
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on January 13, 2015, 10:01:19 AM
Been beavering away on this when I am up in the night with my new born on my lap :)

Should be ready to do a beta 0.1 export soon to start play testing this. However i only have max 2015, 2014,2013 and 2012.

Anyone able to export his for me? Or is there a Newer version of max exporter yet? Thanks!
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Cory_Hayes on January 13, 2015, 10:18:10 AM
There is the fbx to edf exporter that comes with the track tools.
Obviously, you just export your track as an FBX, open the converter/exporter load the FBX into it, and then pick a place to save it, and hit ok.

Some times it might crash, but if it does, keep trying and it should work :)
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on January 13, 2015, 06:28:00 PM
does max support fbx, does all the texturing info and data work correctly too? does it support normal or bump maps, transparancy maps etc?

only ever used the directx exporter before from max... most game tools we have work from within max/maya for working with our frostbite game engine (or unity or UE4).

many thank
Oz.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: LauZzZn on January 13, 2015, 07:05:23 PM
Max supports fbx. Yes textures come with it but for bump and shaders you need to use the "piboso format". Take a look at the track creation rules
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: bootdisk on April 27, 2015, 07:36:50 PM
First post - awesome work - my son goes Karting there and YOU just convinced me to spend £££ on a great simulator, buy Kart-pro and even have a dabble myself.

Great community!

Lee
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: bootdisk on April 28, 2015, 08:34:59 AM
Just some other feedback for you - don't get me wrong your work is great, but I can tell you that, in standing by the side of the track for weeks at a time, the elevation changes are wrong - from memory there are no real changes in elevation - the track is pretty flat - though there may be a slow, gradual incline from one side of the track - the start finish straight is maybe 10 foot lower than the back straight.

I am going there again on Saturday so I will make a mental check for you.

Great work though!

Lee
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Dazza on June 14, 2017, 05:04:50 PM
Hi All. Been a while since this topic was updated. Does anyone know if this Sandown track was completed and released​?
It's the venue I know best and I have a good history of timesheets from both their sodi RT8 karts and DMAX two strokes​.
I'm a newcomer to KRP and figured testing with a track I know well would be a good way of calibrating (and hopefully improving!).  Thanks
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Raise on June 14, 2017, 09:52:57 PM
Hi All. Been a while since this topic was updated. Does anyone know if this Sandown track was completed and released​?
It's the venue I know best and I have a good history of timesheets from both their sodi RT8 karts and DMAX two strokes​.
I'm a newcomer to KRP and figured testing with a track I know well would be a good way of calibrating (and hopefully improving!).  Thanks

This track was never finished to my knowledge, as a general rule if you cant find a download link to it it doesnt exist plain and simple, modders want their content used they dont hide things
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Dazza on June 15, 2017, 09:28:15 AM
Bummer. Thanks for the quick reply. Guess I'd better start reading the 'How to design a track' section then!
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on April 27, 2018, 04:10:36 PM
Hi Guys, been away a little while...

I built a house and had another child, however...

my kids are just getting into Karting and have started Racing here at Sandown Daytona, so i am resurecting this project!

i am so sorry i never finished this but i have some help (and much needed motivation now)! hurrah!

i hope to progress this again soon.

Cheers and Sorry!
Oz.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on April 27, 2018, 04:20:48 PM
Just some other feedback for you - don't get me wrong your work is great, but I can tell you that, in standing by the side of the track for weeks at a time, the elevation changes are wrong - from memory there are no real changes in elevation - the track is pretty flat - though there may be a slow, gradual incline from one side of the track - the start finish straight is maybe 10 foot lower than the back straight.

I am going there again on Saturday so I will make a mental check for you.

Great work though!

Lee

you are quite right, the elevation top (by pit entry) to bottom (entry to turn 1) is less than 18 feet...  i got it horribly wrong initially, i am fixing this!
i have a ton of my own videos from here to use for reference now too :)
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Dazza on April 29, 2018, 11:39:20 AM
Hi Guys, been away a little while...

I built a house and had another child, however...

my kids are just getting into Karting and have started Racing here at Sandown Daytona, so i am resurecting this project!

i am so sorry i never finished this but i have some help (and much needed motivation now)! hurrah!

i hope to progress this again soon.

Cheers and Sorry!
Oz.

Exciting news!  Congrats on the family and house.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on April 30, 2018, 04:03:32 PM
Thanks :)
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: AidenKempf on May 01, 2018, 01:53:10 AM
Thanks :)
if that means your going to keep working on it im excited, keep the work up, the screen shots look good
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on May 01, 2018, 02:40:54 PM
Thanks :)
if that means your going to keep working on it im excited, keep the work up, the screen shots look good

It Does, remodeling a load of the world assets i created as i want higher poly count given the GPU jump since 2014!
we have a much higher poly version of the track built in the last few days too, along with proper geo'd kurbing...

im excited about this again!
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Raise on May 01, 2018, 04:22:23 PM
Thanks :)
if that means your going to keep working on it im excited, keep the work up, the screen shots look good

It Does, remodeling a load of the world assets i created as i want higher poly count given the GPU jump since 2014!
we have a much higher poly version of the track built in the last few days too, along with proper geo'd kurbing...

im excited about this again!
You should avoid high poly count with KRP the game doesnít do a great job of using higher end cards especially nvidia cards so youíll likely just hurt performance Iíd go for a soft upper limit of 100k polys
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on May 01, 2018, 08:44:00 PM
Is that 100k per frame or per track?
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Birel-Rotax 42 on May 01, 2018, 10:24:26 PM
Hi Ozzy. As far as I’m aware, adding polygons that aren’t collidable won’t significantly affect the performance of the track. What will be detrimental to feamerate is if many of those polygons are collidable (TRKASPH, TRKCONC, TRKKERB, etc.)

In experimenting around, I found that you can potentially use 300k polygons for the track (all assets and surfaces) and not see huge performance drops. You have to be smart about how you use the polygons and how large your textures are, but I believe (from comparing track .map file sizes) that the tracks that come with the game are anywhere from 100-150k polygons and they run very well. Let me know if you have any questions!
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on May 02, 2018, 07:55:47 AM
Cool, useful info.

We are authoring textures between 4K and 16k square as we want to import to RFactor 2 as well, if we need to uses lower poly versions for KRP then we will do.

Main thing is getting a high poly version we can work back from if we have to reduce complexity.

Luckily I have the help of another very talented environmental artist. I may work in the industry but Iím just The IT guy. Fortunately I have a couple of studios of developers I can tap into for assistance too!
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on May 02, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
got some updated height data :)
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on May 05, 2018, 12:43:11 AM
I really want to share more updates with you guys, I have been super busy building more environmental assets over this week.
Updating everything I can and remodelling anything that I can improve on.
Finding time is always the hardest bit with a 50hr plus a week job, 3 kids and a super busy wife!

Things are definitely going in the right direction though!

We have a track with kerbs (albeit flat geometry at the moment), and itís all about 12,000 polyís.
We also have the topology mapped out for height ready to deform the track over.

Hopefully Iíll have some images for you guys next week!

For those of you in the UK, enjoy your long weekend!
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on May 07, 2018, 05:22:43 PM
Wanted to share some updated track side assets I built over the weekend...

Does anyone know what the maximum texture size is, and how larger textures impact performance?

Looking forward to your feedback as I havenít done any modelling/texturing since back in 2014...
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Birel-Rotax 42 on May 07, 2018, 08:30:32 PM
Looks great! Generally textures impact the performance when you increase the size. Upping the dimensions by a power of 2 means there are 4 times more pixels to be calculated. While I donít have any empirical data, my general rule for texture sizes are ďbig enoughĒ. If itís a small object, donít do a 4K texture on it.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on May 08, 2018, 12:38:54 PM
Thanks, we are used to working more with Unity/Unreal/Frostbite so 16k textures are pretty common. 4k for small objects is pretty normal with them.

I donít know what the limitations are on the KRP engine...
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Birel-Rotax 42 on May 08, 2018, 01:26:21 PM
More of an optimization thing. I'm pretty sure that I've done 16384x16384 textures for kart skins back when the template had all body parts on the same template, but you don't get much of a difference once you go past 4096x4096. Why use additional resources if you don't have to? Not everyone has a great computer (and sometimes it makes optimization difficult). I've always strive to be able to run the track on a laptop, even if I'm getting 200+ fps on the development PC. If you are using atlases/packing multiple textures onto the same image, yes - 8k or 16k may be reasonable. However, if you are doing single textures (for example the GoPro logo) you will not need to use a 4k resolution image. While the amount of collidalble objects is usually the main culprit for low framerates, your texture size may be a factor in low framerates.

As of now, since nobody has tested the track, we can't be certain. I've created tracks that are 150k+ polygons but did not have huge collision calculations, so they ran well on low end systems.

Edit: after reading through the thread again, Lauzzzn said that 4096 is the max texture size. I can check that later today, but that might be the maximum size.
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Ozzy_UK on May 08, 2018, 05:58:44 PM
Cool, thanks for confirming...
Most assets are at 4096 square but might half that for stuff like the go-pro sign...

The lamp posts have detail down to the stitching on the Daytona protector pads... maybe a bit OTt but I am a perfectionist!

I think track poly count won’t be too bad, all our dev PCs are Dual GTX 970’s or single GTX1080TI’s so we are used to working back from that! Lol.

Most of these are sub 500 poly’s per item. (Lamp post with 4 lights, and timing hut are under 600...)

Our optimised track mesh is about 20,000 polys with flat curbs, including the surrounding ground. Just the track is about 10,000.
We were going to do true geometry kerbs but I read a thread about them causing spins off throttle? Is that fixed?
Title: Re: Daytona Sandown UK Track (WIP)
Post by: Birel-Rotax 42 on May 08, 2018, 09:05:47 PM
I can make a short write-up. I was the one who found the issue and I was able to solve it and still keep the 3d kerbs! Will work on it ASAP!

It sounds like youíre keeping the track in the realm of reasonability. Looks good so far, I know that myself and the SKM team are working on stuff and are anxiously waiting to see if we can push the polygon count to make everything more realistic.