Kart Racing Pro Official Forum

General => Support => Topic started by: marcocale on November 06, 2011, 01:27:13 am

Title: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on November 06, 2011, 01:27:13 am
Beta 4 has for me a problem never had before (at least till beta3)

Every 4/5 sec I have a graphic lag, the image freeze for a fraction of a second, making impossible to drive well.

Kart Racing Pro Beta4B
Ati 5870 Vapor latest Ati driver installed
AMD P955
4Gb Ram
Tried on 2 different partition, one with XP 32 and one with Win7 64 and both have the problem.
No problem with other simulator, even if I assume KRP is the only in OpenGL. Nevertheless till the beta 3 absolutely never experienced such problem.

Tried more or less everything could come to my mind (graph settings, Vsync resolution, etc).

Now I try to ask here if someone has a suggestion for me.

Thank You in advance

Marco
Title: Re: Beta 4 graphics lag problem
Post by: dibu on November 06, 2011, 08:49:20 am
There are other 5870 users with similar problems in other games. Maybe you can find a soloution here:

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=122925&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

I use a 6870 without problems.

Title: Re: Beta 4 graphics lag problem
Post by: PiBoSo on November 06, 2011, 10:18:50 am
If it only happens with wet track, then it's a known problem: http://forum.kartracing-pro.com/index.php?topic=1037.msg6150#msg6150
Title: Re: Beta 4 graphics lag problem
Post by: marcocale on November 06, 2011, 10:32:50 am
Thank you both.  :)

I missed that post PiBoSo. The problem seems definetively worst in wet condition, I'll check better, but as you say, probably the lag is not present when the track is dry (or at least it seemed to me to be why less evident).
Just for information (but for sure you already know) in beta 3 there was no lag also with wet track, so it's something that has to be introduced with the new dynamic surface track condition.
So I assume that you have already identified the problem and that will be fixed in next releases.

Nevertheless I'll take care also of the suggestion of dibu.
I had already heard of that problem for 5870 users, but never read about a solution. I'll take a look at the post linked and hopeefully will find there a solution.

Thank you again

Marco
Title: Re: Beta 4 graphics lag problem
Post by: tubefactor on November 07, 2011, 07:32:10 pm
I have to agree that B4 introduced a graphics lag problem.
Not only in the wet, as I reported a problem concerning the Amsterdam indoor track, which most of the time is dry  ;)

As I have also an ATI (AMD) graphic cart, and as PiBoSo stated that NVIDIA has better open GL drivers could this be an ATI related issue?
Title: Re: Beta 4 graphics lag problem
Post by: dibu on November 07, 2011, 09:04:23 pm
I just took a closer look at the framerates at Amsterdam Indoor with Beta4b. (profile.ini - showfps=1)

You are right, there are two positions where the framerate drops.
The first is in front of the photo flash and the second is on the bridge after the hairpin.

My framerates for the rest of the track are between 240 and 380. At the two locations it drops to about 125.
It's still way enough, so I never realized that there is a framerate drop.


After this test I did the same with Beta3b.
Here the framerate rarely dropped beyond 300 and at the two problem locations it was still more than 200.

Title: Re: Beta 4 graphics lag problem
Post by: marcocale on November 17, 2011, 10:27:15 am
Just to clarifly, since I think we are speaking of 2 different things. My problem seems to be a little bit different, it's not a frame rate problem, but a STUTTERING problem.

My frame rate is quite constant, but I have a lag every 5/6 seconds independently form the position on the track.
So definitively not a problem like you, where you have only a framerate drop in defined positions.
As far as I understand, PiBoSo is referring to my stuttering problem as a well know problem that will be solved in next releases.
Title: Re: Beta 4 graphics lag problem
Post by: PiBoSo on November 18, 2011, 12:33:24 pm

The problem reported by marcocale is well know and fill be fixed in future releases.
The one reported by tubefactor is probably due to a lot of polygons that become visible after a turn, and could be partially solved re-exporting the track, if possible, with the new exporter that generates slightly more optimized geometry.
Title: Re: Beta 4 graphics lag problem
Post by: crazymasterblaster on November 21, 2011, 11:24:58 pm
I have the same problem too but only when i host an online game.
Title: BETA6B graphics lag problem
Post by: marcocale on April 03, 2012, 02:39:00 am
Quote from: marcocale on November 06, 2011, 01:27:13 am
Beta 4 has for me a problem never had before (at least till beta3)

Every 4/5 sec I have a graphic lag, the image freeze for a fraction of a second, making impossible to drive well.

Kart Racing Pro Beta4B
Ati 5870 Vapor latest Ati driver installed
AMD P955
4Gb Ram
Tried on 2 different partition, one with XP 32 and one with Win7 64 and both have the problem.
No problem with other simulator, even if I assume KRP is the only in OpenGL. Nevertheless till the beta 3 absolutely never experienced such problem.

Tried more or less everything could come to my mind (graph settings, Vsync resolution, etc).

Now I try to ask here if someone has a suggestion for me.

Thank You in advance

Marco


Coming back after long time, I still have the same problem.
The problem should be solved in Beta5. Unfortunately for me still problem both with Beta5 and Beta6B.
It' soemthing less with dry track, neverthelsse lag is present, a lot worse in wet condition.
Very strange is that things become worse as long as I'm lapping. At beginning is surely betetr, but after 2/3 laps very bad.
It's for sure some configuration parameter in my config, but I checked almost everything and didn't find a clue.
Is there someone with the same GC that is able to run smootly KRP and can share with me his Graphic settings?

Thanks!

M.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: EVO on April 03, 2012, 05:10:56 am
buy more ram and slightly overlcock your PC using K10STAT
research overclocking and RAM capactiy for your motherboard and RAM types before purchasing.

I have a modern low-end laptop that i upgraded which used to get frame skip (stuttering) and run at 15fps in turns
now i get virtually no frame skip and 30fps in turns.  Should help.  if it doesnt youll have a faster PC as result anyway.

with K10Stat overclock is easy. After playing you can revert to a more conservative setting.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: EVO on April 03, 2012, 06:19:45 am
Also my Windows 7 experience (system benchmark built into WIN7) went from 5.2 to 5.8 out of 7 in gaming graphics. 
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 03, 2012, 09:03:21 am
Thank for your hep.
Forgotten to say that in the meantime I upgraded to 8 Gb RAM (Kingston HyperX if I remember correctly) and I no more use XP, but only Win7 64.

Will try to overclock (I was in the past very addicted to overclocking Pc's), but nevertheless I'm sure it's should work also without.

It's for sure some wrong configuration, or probably the Ati is not suited for openGL?
The problem is very strange, since it's independent from resolution: both I try in 3 screen Eyefinity 5.... x 1... (don't remember exactly the res) or 800x600 the problem looks the same.

Very strange!

Nevertheless , will try to overclock, old times come back!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: EVO on April 03, 2012, 10:19:33 am
yeah i over clocked from 1.5 to 2.8. at 3.1 it becomes unstable.  I hope you know the limits of yours
Title: Re: BETA6B graphics lag problem
Post by: PiBoSo on April 03, 2012, 10:37:18 am
Quote from: marcocale on April 03, 2012, 02:39:00 am
Quote from: marcocale on November 06, 2011, 01:27:13 am
Beta 4 has for me a problem never had before (at least till beta3)

Every 4/5 sec I have a graphic lag, the image freeze for a fraction of a second, making impossible to drive well.

Kart Racing Pro Beta4B
Ati 5870 Vapor latest Ati driver installed
AMD P955
4Gb Ram
Tried on 2 different partition, one with XP 32 and one with Win7 64 and both have the problem.
No problem with other simulator, even if I assume KRP is the only in OpenGL. Nevertheless till the beta 3 absolutely never experienced such problem.

Tried more or less everything could come to my mind (graph settings, Vsync resolution, etc).

Now I try to ask here if someone has a suggestion for me.

Thank You in advance

Marco


Coming back after long time, I still have the same problem.
The problem should be solved in Beta5. Unfortunately for me still problem both with Beta5 and Beta6B.
It' soemthing less with dry track, neverthelsse lag is present, a lot worse in wet condition.
Very strange is that things become worse as long as I'm lapping. At beginning is surely betetr, but after 2/3 laps very bad.
It's for sure some configuration parameter in my config, but I checked almost everything and didn't find a clue.
Is there someone with the same GC that is able to run smootly KRP and can share with me his Graphic settings?

Thanks!

M.


This seems to be a problem with the ATI OpenGL drivers.
Are them already updated to the latest official ones?
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 03, 2012, 02:07:54 pm
Yes Piboso, already updated to last version of Catalyst 12.3 (28/03/2012)

I was wondering if there is an alternative to the official OpenGl drivers, some specific and/or modded OpenGl driver that could work better.
Or some configuration hack that could be done on OpenGl settings to make it perform better.

I hope to be able to solve the problem, Kartracing Pro is GREAT and is becoming every build better. I want to fully enjoy!!!

So any help, as all you guys are doing, is greatly appreciated.  ;)

When I use the shifter kart, it seems to me to come back at when I was driving my All Kart Villa 125cc on tracks!!!! :)
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: PiBoSo on April 03, 2012, 08:59:53 pm

At the moment there no hint where the problem is, so unfortunately it is difficult to suggest a workaround.
It would be useful to know if others suffer stuttering.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 04, 2012, 12:07:48 am
Thank you Piboso.
I'm doing other experiments, will post if I'll find the solution.

EDIT: tried almost everything that coems to my mind. Nothing to do. In the next days I'll try to overclock.
But for me is definetively something related to the horrific support of OpenGL from ATI.

I really would like to know if there is omeone with a stock PC (not overclocked) and an ATI HD5870 GFX that is able torun the game smootly.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 04, 2012, 08:31:15 am
Just an update, just tried also this ( http://www.kn00tcn.net/site/fix-for-rage-drivers-crashing-other-opengl-games-or-applications/#comments (http://www.kn00tcn.net/site/fix-for-rage-drivers-crashing-other-opengl-games-or-applications/#comments)).
It was reported also to cure lag and stutter problem in OGL for Ati drivers.  Extracted the atioglxx.dll of the 64 bit version in the folder where Kart Racing Pro is installed. Tried also with the 32 bit and aslo some previous version of drivers.
Nothing changed in rspect of lagging, nevertheless this tip cured some flickering and flashing object (mainly fences and trees in Lonato) that I didn't mentioned before because aboslutely secondary compared to lagging.

PiBoSo: I ask you a please. If you could me post a link tor redownload the Beta3 (the last I was sure had no lagging), I want to check how that version run NOW on my system.
I want to understand if it's something related to KRP, or something that has to do with my system (new Ati buggy drivers, etc.). Unfortunately I have on my HD only Beta4,5 and 6B.

It could very helpful also if someone with the same GFX could tell me if all is working OK with the newest Ati drivers (12.3).
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: PiBoSo on April 04, 2012, 12:11:19 pm
Quote from: marcocale on April 04, 2012, 08:31:15 am
Just an update, just tried also this ( http://www.kn00tcn.net/site/fix-for-rage-drivers-crashing-other-opengl-games-or-applications/#comments (http://www.kn00tcn.net/site/fix-for-rage-drivers-crashing-other-opengl-games-or-applications/#comments)).
It was reported also to cure lag and stutter problem in OGL for Ati drivers.  Extracted the atioglxx.dll of the 64 bit version in the folder where Kart Racing Pro is installed. Tried also with the 32 bit and aslo some previous version of drivers.
Nothing changed in rspect of lagging, nevertheless this tip cured some flickering and flashing object (mainly fences and trees in Lonato) that I didn't mentioned before because aboslutely secondary compared to lagging.

PiBoSo: I ask you a please. If you could me post a link tor redownload the Beta3 (the last I was sure had no lagging), I want to check how that version run NOW on my system.
I want to understand if it's something related to KRP, or something that has to do with my system (new Ati buggy drivers, etc.). Unfortunately I have on my HD only Beta4,5 and 6B.

It could very helpful also if someone with the same GFX could tell me if all is working OK with the newest Ati drivers (12.3).


Here http://www.kartracing-pro.com/downloads/beta3/krp-beta3b.exe it is possible to download beta3.
There shouldn't be flickering or flashing objects. Could you please make sure the "Bits" in Settings -> Graphics are set to 32?
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 04, 2012, 01:28:36 pm
Thank You

Yes, set in 32

I suspect something really wrong in the newest OGL Ati driver. Nevertheless remember I'm using it on 3 monitors Eyefinity conf. I have seens that sometimes with that configuration you have some object flicker that you normally don't have on teh same system with a single monitor. Nevertheless that Ati GL library totally solved that issue for me, so worth for me to investigate and eventually stick with that.

If also Beta3 will lag (never done) I'll be sure it's soemthing related to my system and/or some bug in Ati OGL driver.

Will infrom you as soon as I'll able to eprform this test.

Bye and thank for the prompt support!  :D
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 04, 2012, 01:30:20 pm
Sorry, Beta 3 give me url not found
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: PiBoSo on April 04, 2012, 01:41:20 pm
Quote from: marcocale on April 04, 2012, 01:30:20 pm
Sorry, Beta 3 give me url not found


Whops! Link fixed.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 04, 2012, 05:36:52 pm
Thanks!  8)

Hope to come back soon with good news!
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 05, 2012, 01:37:15 am
After testing can confirm:
Beta 3 always smooth on every condition
From Beta 4 stuttering, graphic lag every 4/5 sec.. The lag can have different duration without a rule

Problem on both XP e Win7 so I'm convinced that reinstalling Win7 doesn't help.
At this point it should be something strictly related with my HW conf, but can't really find what.

It has to be some setting (in bios? In SO??) that I'm not able to find.

Everything else (but I use on DX program) run very smootly on my PC.

At the moment no idea (overclock apart) on what could be done, except changing PC or at least GFX

My conf:

Kart Racing Pro Beta6B
Ati 5870 Vapor latest Ati driver installed (12.3)
AMD P955
8Gb Ram
Win7 64
Mb M4A79T DeLuxe
Sound onboard Realtek (but nothing change also with an old Audigy 2)
Logitech G25
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 07, 2012, 07:09:50 pm
Can't find a clue.
First time a computer beat me  >:(
I'm starting to think that to solve my problem I'll have to wait when I'll change my PC.
I know I'm telling something logical (since it's one of the things changed from Beta4), but it seems to be related with the dynamic condition of the track.
If I set groove and wet multiplier to 20 lag/stuttering seems to be worse.
Don't know if it can give to you PiBoSo some idea on something more to try (is there for example a way to disable the dynamic condition, just to see if it's thr thing my computer can't properly manage).

Very strange that no other with the same GFX or similar config doesn't suffer such problems, on my system it's the same on 2 differnt partition, one Seven, the other XP. So I suspect that also reinstalling SO could not help.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: PiBoSo on April 07, 2012, 09:20:57 pm
Quote from: marcocale on April 07, 2012, 07:09:50 pm
Can't find a clue.
First time a computer beat me  >:(
I'm starting to think that to solve my problem I'll have to wait when I'll change my PC.
I know I'm telling something logical (since it's one of the things changed from Beta4), but it seems to be related with the dynamic condition of the track.
If I set groove and wet multiplier to 20 lag/stuttering seems to be worse.
Don't know if it can give to you PiBoSo some idea on something more to try (is there for example a way to disable the dynamic condition, just to see if it's thr thing my computer can't properly manage).

Very strange that no other with the same GFX or similar config doesn't suffer such problems, on my system it's the same on 2 differnt partition, one Seven, the other XP. So I suspect that also reinstalling SO could not help.


It is for sure a problem with dynamic track surface. All the hints point to the textures update.
If a workaround is possible, it will be integrated in the next build.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 07, 2012, 10:36:18 pm
Thank You.

Nevertheless I'm sure I should be able to solve myself also in my config. It's only a matter of finding what has to be changed.
Usually I'm successful on it, but this time.......

Unfortunately the fact that no other seems to have the same issue doesn't help.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: PiBoSo on April 12, 2012, 12:49:20 am
Quote from: marcocale on April 07, 2012, 10:36:18 pm
Thank You.

Nevertheless I'm sure I should be able to solve myself also in my config. It's only a matter of finding what has to be changed.
Usually I'm successful on it, but this time.......

Unfortunately the fact that no other seems to have the same issue doesn't help.


Could you please check that the CPU is constantly running at full speed and not dropping to a lower multiplier?
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 12, 2012, 01:44:02 pm
Should not be the case, nevertheless will check possibly this evening.
Thanks for your great support!

EDIT: I have seen this thread http://forum.kartracing-pro.com/index.php?topic=1601.0
It seems could be something similar to my problem.
If yes we should exclude GFX problems (he has a Nvidia), also because I tried almost everything possible on it.

I see we have a similar type of processor (AMD Phenom II), you suggest me to check the processor speed.... are we facing a possible solution???? ;) 
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: Dan Buck on April 12, 2012, 04:27:22 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on April 12, 2012, 12:49:20 am
Quote from: marcocale on April 07, 2012, 10:36:18 pm
Thank You.

Nevertheless I'm sure I should be able to solve myself also in my config. It's only a matter of finding what has to be changed.
Usually I'm successful on it, but this time.......

Unfortunately the fact that no other seems to have the same issue doesn't help.


Could you please check that the CPU is constantly running at full speed and not dropping to a lower multiplier?


my 4 are running full speed! but then again, the stuttering is still there
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 12, 2012, 07:41:48 pm
Made a rough test with CpuZ, all cores are constantly running at full speed even if stuttering/lag is always there.

I tried also to use CPU Control to force KRP to run in different cores' configuration but didn't help
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: PiBoSo on April 12, 2012, 09:14:34 pm
Quote from: marcocale on April 12, 2012, 07:41:48 pm
Made a rough test with CpuZ, all cores are constantly running at full speed even if stuttering/lag is always there.

I tried also to use CPU Control to force KRP to run in different cores' configuration but didn't help


Thank you for the test.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 12, 2012, 09:26:00 pm
is there a program that allow to display in graph CPU speed, just to make a more precise test?
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: PiBoSo on April 12, 2012, 09:52:38 pm
Quote from: marcocale on April 12, 2012, 09:26:00 pm
is there a program that allow to display in graph CPU speed, just to make a more precise test?


Precision is not needed.
Please check, setting KRP in window mode ( or better using a multi-monitor setup if possible ) and using CPU-Z, if CPU Core Speed and Multiplier are stable at maximum or sometimes drop.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 12, 2012, 10:31:05 pm
Tested exactly as you said, KRP in window mode, CpuZ on the second (of 3) monitor. Tested also together CPU Control to force KRP in different configurations of cores.

CPU clock/multiplier never drop, always stable at max 
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: Dan Buck on April 12, 2012, 10:43:02 pm
same here with one screen! :(
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: PiBoSo on April 12, 2012, 11:27:03 pm

Thank you for testing.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 13, 2012, 10:47:49 am
Thank you for support.

Have you already some idea on what could be?

Feel free to ask to make any test useful to solve the problem.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: PiBoSo on April 13, 2012, 02:41:59 pm
Quote from: marcocale on April 13, 2012, 10:47:49 am
Have you already some idea on what could be?


Unfortunately no.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: marcocale on April 13, 2012, 05:35:07 pm
Ok, I'll continue to do tests myself and will post if there will be any update on it.

If something will come in your mind and you need tests, post here and I'll do and report to you.
Title: Re: BETA6B lag problem (was Beta 4 graphics lag problem)
Post by: Dan Buck on April 13, 2012, 06:11:48 pm
same here, marcocale!

will continue testing @ home and if i have any progress, will post it here!

PiBoSo, please continue testing on your side if possible so you can help us out here as well! ;)

cheerz...