mmm, is it right I can't break the engine? also the temp doesn't rise. time ago I read in the forum the KZ1 is without rpm limiter, but here it seems there is
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z226/kirkkonummi/th_kart2013-03-3018-45-54-62_agk_zps82bec6f9.jpg) (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z226/kirkkonummi/kart2013-03-3018-45-54-62_agk_zps82bec6f9.mp4)
It is not a limiter but a limit. The engine has a carburettor configuration which doesnt allow to reach more than 15000 or so. If you lean the setup, then the engine could reach more but the engine will break for sure
We do in KZ1 to 15700rpm.
But there is no limiter...We Setup the Engine so it would reach the most power....We can do 18000rpm but this is senseless because the power of the engine is less over 16000rpm....Our engines are not as Powerful as they CAN be because 1L fuel must be there for the Inspection after the Race (sorry for bad english)....So it is limited by the fuel we can load and the regulation......
In KRP i dont know because i dont drive in the last days because i am annoyed of the curbs...but thats another problem....and it seems to by only my problem ;) ::) :-\
Greetings, GhostriderPL
I dont think that you can have more power than you actually have. The engine has 45hp more~less if the setup is correct. No matter how much gasoline you have to leave for the inspection, you never will have more power than that. In fact, more lean means more power and less consumation, so if you want more power, you will have more gasoline after the race...
Quote from: Aritz on March 30, 2013, 11:10:18 PM
In fact, more lean means more power
mmm, I tought it were different
- more rich, possible bogging out of corners but good power and so highter speed at the end of straights
- more lean, good exit out of cornes but not so good power and so lower speed at the end of straights
Hmmm
If the engine runs rich, you never will have a powerful engine. It will be safer, but not a bomb.
You probably are talking about TaG engines, which almost never reach max RPM due the only gear, but KZ are always running at top RPM, so the more lean, the more speed and good turn exit as well
I was talking in general. for example in this page they say http://scooter.wikia.com/wiki/Tuning_a_carburetor
There is a difference between the best tune and the highest performance tune. When tuned to the level of the highest performance, a two stroke engine will be running in a slightly lean(too much air and too little gas) condition. The best tune we can achieve is a slightly rich one. This will ensure that the engine is protected and properly lubricated while giving us the best performance possible.
but the best way is to try on KRP, min e max carb and to see what happens ;)
This web says the same as me: Lean means power, a little riche means safety but slightly less powered engine
It's sort of irrelevent but relevent, today in the f100 i was driving with carbie on 1, and it blew up 3 quaters down the straight at essay short, without changing anything else i changed it to 2 and it didnt break at all, even through another tooth on and it still didnt, seems like 1 gives more power but at lower rpm and richer is giving it power at higher revs
@Aritz: thats so not right to the end. Because every engine has HIS own specification and only this is important.
Because, when I have for example an engine and i tune it i make more "room" for fuel. And when i want more torgue than i give MORE fuel. What you mean is only the Power side (Power means only how much rpm and speed) thats why you go very lean only on the High rpms because the engin dont must push so hard like going from the down side, but on the lows you want give the engine as much fuel as HE CAN handle ;) to give Him the Fuel he needs to rise up the rpms powerful :)
And in the last Post i dont meant that i will pump more Gas straight to the engine....I mean that when it would be allowed than it would be no problem to push out more Power (there are many ways to do this)
I hope you can understand what i write, my english isnt perfect ;) ::)
And in KZ it is like i said. We dont run to lean, but thats because you have gears and the lenght of the Power range musnt be so long because of that and the rpms musnt be so high too. I never broke a KZ engine by running too lean.. In FA and FSA like 1000 Engines ;) The specifications of the engines are really different thats why i dont compare a KZ to a FA engine. Its another world
Thats why you have 2 screws at the carb. "Low"(under 10000rpm) and "High"(higher than 10000rpm) its a compromise because on low rpms you have to run rich and on the high side lean to have the optimal Power from low to high rpms.
I hope i write it so like i want to say it ;) ;D
Greetings, GhostriderPL
so, now I read so much pages on the web, let's see if I have understood something.
I am not an expert, I have no direct experience. Ghost, your english is quite understable, don't need to repeat every post :) , also me, I can't write all what I could if it were my mothertongue
Real life
there are 2 settings, 1 at low RPM (under +-10000) and at high RPM (over 10000). the carburation is done both by hears and feeling of driving, better a little bit a richer carb for saving the engine. when found a good carburation, it is not forever, it depends also with weather and gear ratio
KRP
It is a semplified carburation because we have only 1 setting.
I tryed KZ1 and Aritz you are right, I reach a highter speed with carb zero,
I tryed KF1 and I dont' feel so much differences accelerating from 30 km/h with carb zero or five.
so, I think it's better use carb zero in all karts (I tryed only at 20 degrees) except in F100, where we have to use lean carb very carefully
so, yours experiences?
Quote from: oppolo on March 31, 2013, 01:13:00 PM
so, I think it's better use carb zero in all karts (I tryed only at 20 degrees) except in F100, where we have to use lean carb very carefully
hmmmmmm it's not good, now I tried some attemps at Rye with KF1 and air 20 degrees. the best lap time is obteined with carb 3.
so, >:(
have I to adjust carb according the air temp and typology of the track? >:(
Carburation also has alot to due with altitude/air density. Maybe rye house i high altitude and you need more fuel. But the engine would blow really fast if that were the case
Quote from: EVO on March 31, 2013, 04:57:04 PM
Carburation also has alot to due with altitude/air density. Maybe rye house i high altitude and you need more fuel. But the engine would blow really fast if that were the case
Hgh altiture means less air, so less fuel also ;)
Remember:
Carburation is a mixture of air and gasoline. The less air pressure due the altitude OR a low pressure condition OR a hot day, the less gasoline the engine can burn. That is the reason for monster engines for the Pikes Peak hillclimb race (4000m over the sea)
Quote from: GhostriderPl on March 31, 2013, 09:38:11 AM
@Aritz: thats so not right to the end....
You are right of course, a tunned engine can burn more fuel and that is the reason for better performance, but... Let me ask you a question:
Are you tunning the engine using a bigger carburattor? I know a friend (Spanish champion twice in KZ2) and he has a tunned engine, but it is almost the same as mine, which is extrictly unchanged. He has a few more HP but he hasn't any kind of problem to end the race with enough fuel for even two more races. His engine probably burns more fuen than mine, but not 9 liters in 15mins... That's insane!
Are you running long distance races or have you a shorter fuel tank or something? I can't understand you really...
Quote from: oppolo on March 31, 2013, 04:24:20 PM
so, >:( have I to adjust carb according the air temp and typology of the track? >:(
Carb must be adjusted according to air temperature and pressure:
Low temp and sun -> high pressure -> rich carb
High temp and rain -> low pressure -> lean carb
Quote from: PiBoSo on March 31, 2013, 06:09:15 PM
Quote from: oppolo on March 31, 2013, 04:24:20 PM
so, >:( have I to adjust carb according the air temp and typology of the track? >:(
Carb must be adjusted according to air temperature and pressure:
Low temp and sun -> high pressure -> rich carb
High temp and rain -> low pressure -> lean carb
thanks a lot!
Quote from: Aritz on March 31, 2013, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: GhostriderPl on March 31, 2013, 09:38:11 AM
@Aritz: thats so not right to the end....
Are you running long distance races or have you a shorter fuel tank or something? I can't understand you really...
I mean that in another way.......Theory ;) i mean how it should can be ;) and no....I drive in the WC but the distances in Race are enough ;) ;D
In KZ1 we have it all Limited too but even bigger than KZ2.....There arent free things like in Old FormulaC.
We have the standard fuel tank, but i meant what CAN be done with the engine and thats sad for me....A KZ1 engine COULD have more than 45HP (what we have in Formula SuperA in old times) but its all Limited like in Formula1 where they have in the 80's 1,6L V6 and up to 1500HP(in Qualifying) and now the same engines for 2014 would have 550HP..
But thats another problem in this times and dont fit in this Tread ::)
Greetings, GhostriderPL
We should have low and high speed needle adjustment. More power band tuning. For kf1 only the powervalve adjustment for short tracks.
KZ2 & KZ1 have around the same sort of things just that KZ1 can have paddles, buttons, ignition kill(for shifting without lifting off). Both have a massive rev limit but the only way to reach it is if your in neutral or have the lowest gearing on possible. It is possible to reach over 15000 rpm and you will hit that at places with long straight but hitting 18000 rpm while full throttle is physically impossible, even if it is as lean as you can get it, you will seize the engine before you even get near it
In my opinion and following the CIK rules kz1 and kz2 are the same engines. For example in the WSK Euro, the times between kz1 and kz2 are quite similar.
We can see it in the next links (Results of the qualifying in Wsk Euro Series at Zuera) :
http://www.wskarting.it/results/ES/2013/Round2/kz2_qualifyingpractice_90.pdf?update=7 (http://www.wskarting.it/results/ES/2013/Round2/kz2_qualifyingpractice_90.pdf?update=7)
http://www.wskarting.it/results/ES/2013/Round2/kz1_qualifyingpractice_88.pdf?update=7 (http://www.wskarting.it/results/ES/2013/Round2/kz1_qualifyingpractice_88.pdf?update=7)
However, in old times, there were huge differences between FSA and Inter-a, as now, between KF1 and KF2.
About the max rev in kz1/kz2 (not limit) i think is about 14.000-14.500 in a normal way, speaking of the top engines like: Tec Sav, Galiffa, or the own fabricants -speaking about Tm and Master too-. I have never seen an engine up to this revolutions with gas, but easily this rev go up when you are downshifting.
In order to the HP of the engines, I had heard that the best engines of Tec Sav are close to 50 hp.